I believe Light’s original idea was on the right track, obviously the law system of today doesn’t work as well as it could. We pay millions in tax dollars to keep criminals on the street, where many go off committing the same crimes again. I don't believe it's one person's job to instill a better system to discourage people from doing these things, but an overall system would be nice. Right now, crime rates just keep climbing, since many are under the impression that all they have to do is serve a few years in jail and then they are cleared of any crimes.

It’s easy to see how Light Yagami had gotten so many people to his side, his argument was pretty logical: The world is rotten because there are rotten people. If we get rid of the rotten people then the world will be less rotten. On the other hand if we do nothing about the rotten people the world will become more rotten.

To say that Light’s killing of the criminals is wrong is kind of hard to do since really he was just giving them a “death sentence”. So anyone who believes in captial punishment should agree with Light in that sense.
More of the problem lies with HOW Light kills his victim (heart attack could be considered cruel and unusual) and the lack of evidence he has against these criminals (we never actually see him doing any other investigating on these criminals other than watching the news…and we all know how accurate they can be.)
Then there’s the part where Light kills people who aren’t criminals but are going after him (i.e Raye Penber)
However most people would probably do the same if they found themselves in that kind of scenario because if Light gets caught then he gets the death penalty. (or heart attack. :) )
However I think Near had said it best in Chapter 105 of the manga (by the way for those who haven’t read the manga, this isn’t verbatim):

It doesn’t really make a difference if the actual killing of the criminals is right or wrong. *
What IS wrong is that Light was trying to force people to follow HIS beliefs. Light isn’t a god so he shouldn’t be able to act like one. In any case every person should decide whether they believe a certain doctrine is righteous or false. Nobody should decide that for you.

* I think Near somewhat agreed with this “Hammurabi” system of justice. However it seems as if Near felt that simply killing someone is lettting them off easy because 1. he decided against killing Kira because he wanted to humilated Kira.
2. He was planning to put Light in a prison for the rest of Light’s life rather than give him the Death Penalty (L on the other hand would have Light be executed.) Another example of showing just how cruel and sadistic Near can be.

His origional idea wasn’t bad, but he simply used it the wrong way. He went overboard by killing good kind people like SPOILER L. Near truly puts it best quote “Even if there was a god and I had his teachings in front of me I would decide for myself what is good and what is evil.”

i think that in the beginning he was trying to do good but that his idea of whats right and wrong had been warped the longer he had the death note in the end he payed for the fact that he believed he was perfect

but i think that to get rid of all the evil in the world you would have to kill everyone no one is just good and his supporters were evil to because they egged on killings that didnt need to happen

I can honestly say that Light’s original idea should be given some praise. I mean, why should those who have commited not a single crime pay taxes for those who are likely to commit crimes again and again? When will people be able to sleep at night after witnessing a murder or being involved in a rape? To put it bluntly; Why can’t we kill all the bad people so the good people will be safe?

But I would defiantly be against “Kira” if this ever happened.

First off, I hate the idea of killing. Full stop. What right does anyone have to take a person’s life? Who do you kill? Based on who’s judgement? Human lives, wheather they’d be a rich lawyer or a common theif, are all supposedly equal. I just think a person’s life is too… important to be taken away. This isn’t to say people shouldn’t take responsibilities for their actions, or not serve any form of punishment when they have done something wrong. No doubt, if there’s a murderer on the loose, he should be inprisoned. I think if people started to consider people’s feelings and lives more, maybe…

I’d also like to mention that everyone is entitled to their own opinion… which would be a catastrophe to Light’s ideology (just like in the manga!) Many people will consider say this is the best idea possible, and others will not. Light’s idea will do just as the story unfolded, the world would become utter chaos to live in. Also, again why should it be one person to make these dicissions? Should it be only one, “chosen” person to do so? Wouldn’t it be better if it were a group of “good” people? How tight will the judgement be? What if they don’t agree? etc. etc. The point is there are too many questions like these… and way too many answers to them all. So, wouldn’t it be better if it didn’t happen at all?

So to sum it up (and for those who weren’t bothered to read half the text, I shall put it bluntly):
I believe Light’s ideology was wrong

I agreed entirely with Light’s ideology. I don’t think he ever went astray; rather he was doing whatever it took to protect his identity as Kira and his ability to shape the world. While I don’t believe just anyone should be able to wield that kind of power, it was certainly in better hands with Light than Higuchi(iI think that’s what his name was) from Yotsuba, or even Mikami’s as he was talking about passing judgement on “lazy people”.

My problem is that Near/Mello/L didn’t really have much reason to be chasing Light/Kira, other than the fact that it was a detective case. They acted like it was a game, where Light was very serious about a worldwide revolution. I don’t think they or the other officers(other than Matsuda) ever questioned their own morals and ideals, and wondered whether or not Kira was doing the right thing. The phrase “You have to spend money to make money” comes to mind; in order to erradicate evil, you need to almost become evil. Light was one of the characters that was a “necessary evil”, akin to guns used to protect people.

Light also gave up his eternal soul for the purpose of changing the world for the better. Ryuk explains that one who uses the Death Note can neither go to Heaven or Hell, and Light gave that up for the potential betterment of humanity. And he never lost track of that goal, up until the last episode(I’m speaking strictly from the anime).

People like L and Near and Soichiro Yagami are simply too stuck in their old ways, traditionalists that are afraid of change. Taking a line from Mobile Suit Gundam’s Char Aznable, their souls are weighed down by gravity. They are too short-sighted and obstinate to realize that the overall changes Light is bringing are good. It is proven in the anime that wars and crime are all but eliminated six years after Kira’s appearance. But instead of embracing the peace and going with the flow into a new happier era, they fought against it for no reason other than their foolish pride and the idea that “killing is bad”.

While not without holes or flaws, Light’s new world easily could’ve brought about the next step in evolution for humanity(and could’ve lengthened the series considerably :P) After Light’s natural death, supposing he wasn’t killed, of course the issue of a power vaccuum becomes apparent, along with how or who becomes the next ruler. But ideally, and speaking from a genetic/biological point of view, after enough generations of mild-mannered people breeding mild mannered kids, not only naturally are they likely to be calmer and less prone to violence, but because of the nurturing peaceful world they grew up in, the children and children’s children are increasingly likely to reinforce that tranquility. (The only problem comes when we’re attacked by aliens: How will we defend ourselves? :P)

It is possible and maybe even likely that Light’s peaceful world wouldn’t last – the aforementioned power vaccuum would cause trouble and of course if the government were an oligarchy like suggested above, the various members very well might fight for power, or the Death Note, etc.

But the fact that Light made the effort to change and help the world, and the sheer possibility that he could be the savior of human liveliness absolves him of any “crimes” as we define them now. Light’s efforts and thought process were entirely correct, and anyone that wouldn’t consider trying to cause a social revolution for the better would be doing a great disservice to themselves and their species.

If you took the time to read all of that, next time I see you I’ll give you a hug. Thanks for reading!
(It’s pretty pathetic that I just wrote an essay about a cartoon…)

Since I am an indecisive person I must say that he was both wrong and right.

Killing people is wrong, “that is the politically correct answer”. Unless they deserved the death penalty then they should not have been killed. The manga is also badly influential. The series was banned in China and apparently there is a case that there were severed body parts with a note about the manga, if you look at Death Note on Wikipedia you will find an piece that states about a possible man slaughter or a hoax with a note about the series.

Light’s way is also somewhat good. By killing people it makes other people do no crime. The crime rates go down and there are less people filling the prisons like they have been today. Of course no one is ultimatley good it keeps the law in order, the only thing wrong that goes against the law is him killing people. Whether or not the people believe Kira’s judgment is correct they all now feel safer.

I absolutely agree with Nick AKA Gunface138’s opinion and arguments. If he had not mentioned all those reasons, I would. Now that this is not necessary, I am going to say, “Well done, I am glad there is someone else who thinks the way I do,” because this is quite a rare occurrence.

I support Light’s ideas completely, and I understand that he had to do everything he did in order to at least get close to his goal. He actually managed to make the world a little better, which is an incredible achievement for humanity. People like L, Mello, and Near were necessary because otherwise it would have been too easy for Light, which is basically not realistic and even impossible. I am sorry that Light could not use his qualities of a genius to their full extent, as he had to die. Otherwise… he would have reached even further heights.

However, I think the Death Note does not provide enough abilities in order to actually make the world a better place. People need impressions and emotions that give them the illusion that they are happy. This was the aspect of human life for which Light did not have a way to provide. This is why he met enemies.

Surprisingly, his sole existence turned into such an inspiration for innumerable people. What proves this are the last six pages of the last chapter of the manga. I am referring to the people on the mountains with the candles in their hands and the girl who looked up with hope and uttered the words, “Lord Kira.” This is the moment which provides sense for the story of the Death Note and tells that there was a positive consequence of Light’s actions after his death—he had become a true God for those people, thus, presenting them with hope and joy.

I share Light’s ideals and agree with his actions and decisions. Even if he became a maniac in the end, I accept this: it was for the sake of an incredible goal. This made him the fabulous man he exists as in my consciousness.

Alright, high five to eXoticPirate. I was pretty sure I’d get flamed for saying that. Of course, I agree with my colleague’s insightful sentiments.

I am amazed that everyone can back up their answers in such a powerful way.

I can only say that both kira’s and all the others who opposed him had very amazing ways of looking at this subject. But, as the world is not perfect, no one will ever agree on one ultimate decision. If only they could’ve seen past their opinions and worked together, maybe the world could’ve become a far better place than even light intended it to be. Something even better than peace could’ve been discovered if both opposing forces joined.

Maybe that is what we should’ve learned from this.

Nop, Light are crazy, he is soo stupid…I love the L´s justice, he is the perfect boy!

L I love you!

Light logic was right, but his actions ended up wrong,.
He believed himself to be a god, his geniusness makes his words the truth, but he forgot that he is not immortal, so whatever change he will make in this world, it will end by his death, what he created is just an illusion.
L, Near, Mello and Matt(He didn’t do alot but he was there^^), had a better reason is that, the best they can do help this world is to catch as much criminals as much possible.
Though Light’s was more effective when we notice his six years of his judgement, but after his death it will be worse than before because the criminals who were hiding in fear (remember that Kira couldn’t secret mafia organizations, and that humans are not perfect at some point they will surrender to their evil thoughts)will rush and do what they want and even more freely by seeing “God Kira is no more, there is noone to judge me”, and such as a disaster for sure.

i agree with Light’s ideology..
but, no human can be a God, i think. . .

i think Light was too caught up with trying to make a better world that he only focused on a small point instead of getting the entire picture.
however you look at it, you can’t just define what’s good and what’s evil. there’s a some good and bad in all of us. taking lives to prevent evil happening is just not possible, everyone will live in fear of getting killed and more over, when the serious criminals gets all killed, light will start on the little cimes, and thus goes on until there’s no one left in the world except himself!
everyone does something wrong in their life doesn’t matter wheather it’s a big deal or not, but death sentence isn’t the solution.
Light’s idea on a new world is in my opinion naive, and more like a little boy’s day dream than reality.

Most or all of what was said above, I covered. As for Elle: You’re right. Good and evil are highly relative, and nigh undefineable terms. However, as a people and as a society, we can agree that rape, murder, robbery, as Shaza said, are generally “ungood”. They’re often counterproductive, selfish, and anti-social acts, correct? People who engage in and indulge in such acts must be punished, don’t you agree? Perhaps death sentence is innappropriate for kid that shoplifted a pack of gum, but if people who steal cars and identities, and rob banks are killed as soon as they are caught, there’s a much lesser chance that that kid would risk doing something he knows is illegal. And many, if not all the people Light killed were doing something illegal, not “evil”. Also, now that that kid was scared straight, it’s a lot less likely his gum theft would evolve into shoplifting clothes, and then into bigger and bigger things. We don’t know if Light would or wouldn’t start on smaller crimes once the larger ones were stopped, either. He always seemed to show some thought and tact in his executions, obviously not abusing his power by refraining from killing indiscriminately and not killing any major politicians. This would obviously cause enormous problems not only for Light, but would simply be an abuse of power. And as much as Mikami was a good senser of what Kira would have wanted, he was a little less conservative in his use of the note, as I said before. While im reiterating, might I point out again that had Light lived a longer natural life without the interference from LMN, we would have a good 60 – 80 more years of Light’s responsible use. Note that I didn’t say “perfect” or “infallible” use; I said responsible. He knows the limits, and he knows the consequences, and acts accordingly.

As I said, it’s not perfect, nothing ever is, but it’s a better start than any of the rest of us can boast. Everyone seems to have the idea that Light would be perfect in his role as Kira… but that’s not at all the case. I’d say he’s about as qualified as any judge in the American court system, and they make mistakes, so why can’t Light? Judges all the time make judgements too early or without all the evidence, simply because the future cannot be determined, and you never know if you truly have ALL the information. But Light’s system is a far more efficient deterrant, and that fact is irrefuteable. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that Light would abolish prisons or any other sort of government-induced punishment. Community service would likely become the standard fare, with prison for people who commit crimes with no victims but are to minor to be capital but too harsh to go unpunished. It’s all a matter of logic, and reconstructing our legal and penal systems and social norms.

Continuing my second rant(goddamn I’m pathetic. Light should kill me too bahaha.), I turn my attention to Modi and the notion that after Light, repressed criminals will run rampant. Once again, I disagree(I guess I’m a bit of a Negative Nick.). I again repeat my earlier prediction that Light’s natural life and judgement would be extended a significant number of years, and anyone born before with inherent criminal desires and urges would either be eliminated or calmed. As for those born soon after Lights judgements, they would be too old to commit many crimes. Outside of Andrei Chikatilo, who over 40 or 50 years of age can you name that has committed any serious crimes? That sort of thing is reserved for younger, hot-blooded people, both stereotypically and genetically(Anti-social personality disorder usually surfaces/peaks around 15/20’s-30’s and subsides later on in life… I’m a psych major, leave me alone.). But for those born during the later part of Light’s reign, say the tail 20 or so years, would, as I mentioned earlier, grow up in a peaceful world surrounded by peaceful people of the generations under Light’s protection. As for the “secret mafia” idea, I’m a bit skeptical that any malevolent organization would stay together for the rest of Light’s lifetime doing nothing, just waiting for the day he croaks. This is all assuming, of course, there is no one to take his place, and/or the police don’t shut them down for their highly profitable child-gum-thieving ring first.

I argue that Light’s world would not have been an illusion – Given time. Of course once LMN selfishly tore down all the progress Light had (practically singlehandedly, I can’t think of any other change as enormous as eliminating crime and war being made by one person. Not even civil or equal rights. Someone deserves a Nobel Peace Prize or two… ) made by the time he was 23, there is no doubt that what was said by the others would have occurred. Criminals running amok, law and order crumbling and all, but after a lifetime or so of peace(once again, assuming no successor was named and ascended peacefully) people would talk about a time when rape and murder were common occurrences like we talk about how America was segregated and women stayed at home and cooked and cleaned. In 40-50 years, it seems that we’ve come a long way, and being that I’ve grown up in a world like that, I can’t imagine going back to not being able to date a girl based on her race as opposed to our feelings. But in another 20 or so years, if those laws dissolved somehow… anarchy, say… do you really think we would go back to forbidding multi-racial couples and frowning upon divorce, etc.? It’s the same thing – right now we’ve just accepted murder and law-breaking as “how it is”. But it doesn’t have to be, and with the proper systems in place, only law-abiding citizens would remain.

Of course it seems absurd or naive now, but so did other things we as a species have overcome, like going to the moon or abolishing slavery. And of course there will be those of you who are against change and don’t want to try anything new for the good of mankind. But try to open your mind, and understand that although it seems odd or wrong now, Light’s world could be the best thing that’s happened to us all.

But let’s not forget super-dupper-nothing, whose thought is probably the best and most beneficial. Had L, and the police, actually worked with Light (like he wanted) crime could’ve been taken down much quicker, and Light could have also been kept in check a little better, to prevent from the unlikely situation of Light killing everyone but himself.

Dammit, I’ve done it again. I’m on winter break, so I’ve got nothing to do but sit around and be nerdy. But I like to debate, so I come back here every once in a while. So if anyone else has any ideas, you should comment! I don’t mean to be a dick and act like my opinion is the only one…

When I first started watching the serie, I was half-agreeing to Light’s ideals. I can understand his point of view, he’s a normal teenager who hates crime. Most teenagers these days would want to exact same thing, a world without crime, or “evil” as some people would say. But I don’t think that using the Death Note to change the world was a good uproach at this. But despite this, I am still going to agree with L.

As I continued through the serie, Light was actually thinking that he was God, and he kills criminals even if the crime was not big enough to deserve the death sentence. Light has become the very thing he is trying so hard to eliminate.

I find it completely logic that the police tried to catch Light. Even if the victims are criminals, they are still human lifes. Another human has no right to take away their lives. Light was a criminal, and he needed to be stopped. This was proven to us when he killed the FBI agents sent to Japan. They were innocent lives, and they didn’t deserve to die.

To conclude this, i can say that I did not agree with Light’s ideals. If we want to stop crime around the world, we should work as a team in order to do so. And I don’t think that killing all criminals would solve the problem. Nobody is perfect, not all are “good”. Only few of those people should truly deserve the death penalty.

Hmm, it’s hard to decide. He got the right idea that there are rotten people in this world but Light became a criminal in the process. The most dangerous(and possibly criminal) activity is killing. If you kill someone when it’s not the purpose of self defense, it’s considered illegal which Light did. Did Light kill to save himself from getting killed? No. He killed for others protection and so that he wouldn’t get caught and go to jail. Which is what criminal’s goal is. Except for the others protection part. Those are the police’s dead-end job. So I guess I’m saying yes and no.

For the most part, since society has always been corrupted ever since Adam and his sex toy/clone/sister/spouse a.k.a Eve was born or possibly even the beginning of time, it is part of life and people will have to deal with it. Generally anyone who’d want to rid of evil might die in the process, which is pointless since you will anyway once your days are numbered whether or not you’ve been “good” , or end up becoming a criminal yourself since your goal has driven you to the point where you’ve been trying so hard that you’ve become the thing(s)/person(people) you always wanted to destroy. And so both, if maybe all, the paths you will take or have taken will have your fate rests in death’s hands.

Light has taken both paths if possible(‘cause your usually supposed to only pick one). He kill criminals that in the process he died and he was driven to insanity that he subconsciously became one.

In final conclusion, my answer is a yes and no.

Wow, i’ve always WANTED to find a place where I could come and debate Kira’s morals! Okay, Gunface, you utterly amaze me. However, I have to disagree with you and say that Kira’s morals have flaws (not that he’s wrong!) From a plitical standpoint Kira eliminates the idea of individual countries having freedoms. As proven by the assassination of the American president and the submission of America and the subsequent world to Kira’s morals, Kira has power over the countries’ leaders and more. If a president is elected who disapproves of Kira, he would be killed. That makes the people’s choice redundant. They didn’t elect the vice resident; the american citezens elected the president who was killed. People would have to hope their choices coincided with Kira’s personal opinion. A corrupt leader. true. would be better off dead, but just for opposing Kira an otherwise good leader could be killed?
Secondly, the judicial system is totally undermined. Kira becomes judge, jury and executioner which removes the due process that most criminals have to go through to be punished. One person having absolute power somewhat taints the entire process as Light really needs a team- to investigate the crime, plead the case, debate things with him, and then reach a conclusion. True, the judicial system is doing this for him, but he still bears the majority of the power with no one to present a second viewpoint to him.
Finally, it’s possible that Kira’s system could be corrupted by the PEOPLE themselves. Relying on the media as he does and not having people to witness the crimes themselves, he could be presented with false information. The media could easily exxagerate a story or present false facts to make things more interesting, gain kira’s attention or to settle personal grudges.
Anyhow, just like Communism, it’s a lovely idea in THEORY but it would have many troubles existing with ONLY Light running it.
Anyhow, feel free to shoot down my ideas Gunface! I’d be happy to debate with you day and night. I love debating. (Email me at any time if anyone has any counterarguments!)

Actualy if Light was given enough time and LMN didn’t do what they did, then any objection against Kira especially after everyone saw how his judgement eliminated war and crime, then any opposition would be seen as the wrong thing to do
If a corrupt president was elected then the people will notice that after a while which will make them hope that Kira will kill him. Even if they didn’t see the presiden’t corruption, after Kira’s achievment any judgement will be trusted as the right thing to do, and since we have good knowledge of Light’s idea, we are sure that his seat of power will not corrupt him.
The judical system is not needed, and it’s not of a sacrifice considering the rewards of Kira’s judgement.
Appointing investigation teams will not be a problem if Light was truly given that oppurtunity, he would appoint a highly effecient one, since we have already seen how Light was able to appoint effecient Mikami(even though with a bit of flaws) without exposing himself to Mikami. You may point that the six years were enough time to appoint, why he didnt? they were not a good time since he was too busy to deal with being the Second L looking for Kira, deal with idiocies that may occur under his name(like Demigawa) and don’t forget that he needs to keep in touch with the investigation team he made, which would be hard while he is working. This communication is important to avoid any mistakes, which may occur even with ean effecient team(which is seen in Mikami’s mistak which was the downfall of Kira and was mainly because of the lack of communication).
Besides we have’t really seen Light’s way of judging in the six years of reign , which with Lights intellegence I highly suspect it’s a reckless.
And Gunface I am sure that I will have something to defend L’s actions, though if not I will say that too. I was lately so I hadn’t much time, but thankfully free for now.

Though probably this thread is waaay over, I’d have to disagree w/ Light’s views of creating a ‘utopia’ by killing off certain people. It is wrong to kill another living thing even if it’s a bug, killing is not the answer. I say let justice play itself or life. Here’s what I say, if you do great things in life you get great things in life. If you do bad things in life you’ll always get bad things from life itself. It’s all a huge recoil from your actions. Light is an immature teenager-man who accepts the easiest way out of things to his advantage. Personally I was rooting for the law (Hence, L, Near, Police, and maybe Mello…) to beat Kira, Light Yagami even used his father to go on with his war with justice. The sad part is… Light is a true genius, if only he could’ve been a good genius than an immature person who has an advantage at killing a living being by scribbling something on a notebook. Basically what I want to get at, killing is not the answer. Disciplining others and yourself is. The author wanted to show a ‘utopia’ and how it could be created. Rumors have it the author himself disagrees with the fact killing can make a drastic change. Remember, killing is not the answer.

well as for many people i agree with lights HA HA so called actions i belive he is great he is using the power of death over those who do evil he gives even the death god a high purpose from witch he take the life of those evil people into the greatest of hands lol i belive that in a way light is like a man behind a car steering wheel carfully picking and choosing who too weed out in his perfect world there is no meadium to life and death light is the person in this story who has gained a lucky control over this as well he was a perfect match to his writing because he is a genuis i am happy for him he gives people in the story a sense of fear and safty lol they dont know witch ways to turn cuz one wrong move they will end up on the 6 O clock news as a crimenal then the next night walking home from work a hard attack will catch them like flys lol haha u see light is the closest thing to justice there is he is the verdict and the judge lol

yeahh…!

not important for me

khukhukhukhkhkuhkuhkhuu..

No. I don’t think Yagami-kuns, or any ideal for that matter, can be completely right, because it is an ideal. ideals are always one sided and is unable to be flexible because of that locked view on things.
Light’s ideal separated people into two groups. One was “These people are innocent and good. They deserve to live.” and the other “These people are rotten dirty and evil. They deserve death. Any person who opposes me must also be one of these rotten people, too.”
It almost sounds like something from a spoiled little brat, you know, and I for one can’t staaand spoiled little brats, and would never accept this sort of person as a “god”.
There’s another good point somebody else made on this topic, and that’s that Kira was trying to force himself to become the god of the new world. Those that did not accept him, like me or any other anti-Kira person out there, would have died, and that was that.
Now, try putting yourself in the shoes of the people living in that world. There was a really important scene in the anime where a guy was literally begging the police not to take his name down because Kira would kill him, even though he was probably only suspected of doing a crime or may have even done only a petty crime, like shoplifting. The person who said the world was peaceful was a child, who couldn’t possibly know what the real world was like, and could easily relate to Light’s very childish view of the way the world should be. Good-guy lives, bad-guy dies. Just like in the western films, kids.
But this isn’t a western film anime event, go watch Trigun for that.
This world is based in an average, believable Earth world.
Oh, and just think, would you reaaally feel safe if somebody were to be able to get you dead fast if they just said you did something bad and all you could do is deny it. Man, you’d be screwed with no way out and would probably end up in the death note. Jeese, and the constant death wouldn’t create a sense of peace at all either, people would be scared shitless. Well, all the people with some sense in their heads that is.
As for the rest of the people without sense in their skulls (60% or more of the population according to the IQ test scores statistics) and those people that follow anybody with a bit of power blindly (we call them… sheeple) they’d just have to sit down and pray to Kira for salvation like the good little lambs that they are, and thus, why Light’s plan of becoming a god actually sorta worked for him.
That of coarse, does not change the fact that Kira was a crazy, foaming-at-the mouth murderer in the end, and, despite all of Light’s efforts and sneaky little bastardish moves and manipulation of quite a few women at that, that fake god was only dust in the wind in the face of a real death god.
He died vainly and in vain.
He did create one good thing though, hope. He gave some of those silly, and naive, little sheeple something to hope for and to beleive in. It’s not so wrong to hope for a change for the better in the world that you live in, but what is wrong is the means taken by Light to make that world “better”. Das Ende!!!

Light’s ideology was faulted either way. His original plan was to bring justice to the world, and not to kill innocent people. The reason why he ended up killing innocent people (such as Raye and Naomi) was because of law.

He did not want to get into trouble. The government declared the the killing of criminals were a crime, and Light did not want to get found out. Therefore he had to kill his obstacles.

As much as I believe Light’s knowledge is 9/10, I don’t think he uses 100% of his 9/10 knowledge. He is always too carried away and hasty to think twice, unlike L.

Bringing justice to the world is… impossible with 6 billion people. Light’s ideology would not exist with crime everyday.

But as the person above me stated, Light did have hope for those six-seven years he had owned the Death Note for. He did not give up.

Well, in my opinion, Light’s ideology was both right and wrong (mostly wrong though…)
Light’s original idea (of killing the criminals) was quite similar to creating some kind of utopia, where justice really exists. And yes, he just gave the criminals a death sentence. But I think giving the death sentence to people already sentenced to death or life in prison doesn’t really help that much. What I mean is, he used TV and internet and actually punished SUSPECTS, or people thar were already in jail. So, even if the crime rate wasn’t that high, that wouldn’t help much.
With Light killing innocent people… that wasn’t because of law, that was some kind of battle for survival. If Raye Penbar or Misora Naomi told L about what happened in the bus, he would have been caught. If L actually managed to test the Death Note, the 13-days-rule would have dropped and Light and Misa wold have been the main suspects.
Anyway, I think that bringing justice to the world nowadays is totally impossible…
1. There are way too many people, and in order to know all the killers you have to be God.
2. Even if… absurdly, Light managed to kill all the criminals, there will always be at least one man that would kill somebody else (mental illness, psychos, jealousy, revenge, theft, ...) So, I think Light’s idea was really naive…
And the reason why he didn’t give up for 6 years was none other but pride. I heard him mentioning of becoming the God of the new world more times than the idea of punishing the criminals.
Anyway, in the end, Light thought more about himself than about the other people. He used other people as tools, and then he got rid of them. All of this for what? Crime rate would eventually rise again, and he would die sooner or later. He would never be God, even if he had worshippers. He would never be immortal…. his worshippers would, as well, sooner or later, die. So all of his “work”, or ideology would have been in vain, or, just for Ryuk’s fun. In other words, I don’t agree with Light’s ideology.
Sorry for my extremely bad English(I’m Romanian) and sorry again if I offenced someone… If you have something to say against my opinion, I am ready to “listen”.

bleeeeehhh….........

... Is there anything wrong, neko? If there is, I’m listening… hope you have a better argument than this one, though.

ShinigamiDanna, killing criminals already in jail or already have a death sentence, helps in planting fear in other criminals hearts, also it works as a mean for advertising that he exists, someone is doing something, which worked well. Regarding your point that he uses people as tools, you can say some things have to be done, if you want succes, like when you get promoted, someone else has been demoted or was fired from his job.
I don’t think Light wanted peace to last forever, but to be a god of piece as long as he lives and after his death he doesn’t care, though I thought it will be for a quite long time.
Though I agree with his idea is naive, he can’t get rid of the evil part in human nature, maybe he can while he is alive, but when he dies it’s nothing.
L’s way was better because his idea, I think was “I will do my bestas long as I am alive”, and his own words “Justice will prevail”.
And don’t take Neko’s posts seriously, it apears that he is unable to understand the debate, so he proves himself by being a source of annoyonce.

Well, Modi, you are right.
As for that thing with planting fear in criminal’s minds, some people kill when they are angry and they don’t quite think…. so, besides Kira, there would still be at least one other murderer in the world.
The world will always be rotten, and no person can stop this. At least that’s my 15-year-old-girl opinion. If in the next few years my opinion will change, I’ll let you know :P
And, of course, I still believe Light wants to be God (well not necessarily when he was in his teens, but after some time), and he uses the “killing criminals” idea as an excuse. As you can see later, he claims that he is the God of the new world after L’s death, and then at the encounter with Near, after Mikami wrote the others’ name down in the fake note… not after he managed killing all the criminals.

I belive that it was the rigth thing to consider but the wrong thing to do other wise! i love the show to peices but if this was real life i would definaltly be scared that he’d abolish the whole human race in the end!

*Kako

The theory was completely right and should be made, but Light himself had incorrectly executed it and even broke the rule.

SPOILER

He killed even innocent people like Ray Penbar or Naomi Misora, only to keep his identity hidden from others. This can be considered breaking the law, thus Light should have been killed with the Death Note.

If only someone else who was wiser, and does not need to kill innocent people to keep this theory go on.

yeeeaahh…..
but it’s not important for me….
teserah deh mo pada ngomong apaan..
kaga peduli gw..

oon lu pade…
gw mah kaga ngarti ma permasalahannye.., makanye gw kaga nulis yang berbobot d sini..!!

................

Well, I think the theory was impossible to accomplish. Creating an utopia is impossible.
Anyway, even if it WAS possible, it wouldn’t have been that possible without killing innocent people.
He didn’t kill those people only to keep his identity hidden, but to remain free as well. I hope you remember that L wanted to sentence him… so and those people could have helped L, so Light killed them.
I still don’t think it is the right thing to do. It gives me the impression of a dictator, that thinks that everybody opposing him is evil.

SPOILER
In episode 2, after Lind L Taylor said that what Kira was doing was evil, Light himself said: “I am the savior who is going to be the God of the new world. Those who disobey God… they’re the evil ones!” So, I hope you understand my point of view.
I totally agree with L when he sais “Kira is childish and hates losing”. He often reacts the way his pride is telling him to do.

I think the theory was childish… It is impossible for someone to create an utopia. That’s what I was trying to say in my previous posts. And Light often gets carried away by his pride. He himself said, before killing Lind L Tailor: “I am the savior who’s going to be the God of the new world. Those who disobey God… Those are evil! Therefore, he IS childish, and he reacted as his pride told him.
And he didn’t kill the other innocent people only to hide his identity, but to escape from death.
No one can create the perfect world without sacrificing innocent people. But, as I said earlier, no one is able to create the perfect world, even without killing those people. It is all about human minds and the diversity of opinions… and about reactions.

I can’t agree or disagree to Light’s ideology or even Near’s. It is because every side has some good and bad to it and I don’t even know if the bad and good are actually bad and good.

I agree that Light’s idea of a utopia is immature coming from a genius mind but if you come to think of it, he thought of this with good intentions. Even if it is or turn out to be bad, the fact that he did it with good intentions is utterly benevolent. He sacrificed his life knowing that using the death note will give him a sad end to his life. And he also sacrificed his love for his father b/c the he was a barrier to his goal which is for the betterment of the world. He actually became selfless.

But he kinda went overboard when he thought of himself as a god, which was just so narcissistic of him. (wait, this just opposed my first point) But who wouldn’t? I have a death note and I can kill anyone who’ll do such bad things so I can make a peaceful world. What would I think of myself, just another dude? I am effing powerful! If I have a package full of money, I wouldn’t hesitate to not give you the half of it. It is because so then we’ll be in the same level. I wouldn’t like that. This is human nature; we are born to be selfish so we can survive. But one thing I’m sure of is that he’s not my god.

Yes he killed not so bad people but he did it just like what he did to his father, they were barriers to his larger goal which would benefit more people. You might rebut to the benefit of more people part but this is what he thought. I’m actually judging Light by his situation and his mentality. Benefit of the people, ummmmm, I think if he indeed reigned supreme, in the long term Light or his successor will eventually be bored and do some shit about it because now the world is filled with good people, not much chemistry. Well I can’t really imagine a world filled with only good people, it’s too good to be true. I think there’s gotta be a balance to it and that’s what he should’ve thought of but he was too ailed by the crimes surrounding him he just want an end to it. Besides, how would we enjoy peacefulness if we haven’t experience chaos or seen it at least? At this moment we might like the idea of a perfect world even if we can’t actually imagine it perfectly but don’t you think in a long run there’s going to be some negative reaction to it?

Let’s go to Light’s killing spree. I don’t really know if a person would be better off dead cause I don’t know what shits the dude had to get through and it might be just a matter of just understanding the bad person and giving the dude a chance to be worthwhile. But no one have time for that. Everyone has to be responsible for themselves but the thing is why would someone do bad things? There’s gotta to be a reason, you don’t do stuff for no reason even if it seem unreasonable. I can’t really tell much about this worth dying thing it’s too complicated and there’s too many aspects to it. I can’t really say that killing is good or killing is bad. But hey someone’s got to be killed and someone’s gotta be the killer just like adopting is not desirable for many humans but hey someone’s got to adopt a kid. You might think that Light is self righteous, he is and he is not. He is simply because he judged people like he has a right. But not only him, Near and his comrades too are self righteous just like everyone else in this world. The time that you judged someone if they ‘re good or bad consciously, unconsciously or subconsciously just made you self righteous because the thing is nobody has the right to do so. We just judge people by a very narrow perspective and by what good will it do (the good that we know of) but does it really suffice? I don’t think so there are so many aspects to it that I can’t even think of. But is sure does make us feel better. It give us some illusion of certainty in this very uncertain world.

Moving away from Light let me talk about L. It is a good idea to think that Light can change Near’s mentality and they could work together to fight crimes. But I think this hardheaded dude will ever be convinced that killing is a good tool to promote less crime. Even though they also do it, it just takes longer because of the trials and whatnot. I say that Light and Near are both immature in their mentality. Near and Light no matter how good they are in scheming and tricking, I think they never once in their life actually confront their beliefs and learn when to believe in it. This is the problem with people who have strong conviction and adheres to it. They do too many actions and quick decisions, they’re so bold where no one really knows which is true. (being bold is cool cause I don’t meet many bold people) I remember L telling that Light is just another insane murderer, he actually makes sense. But L is just another orphan who became a cop. I was just wondering if he ever took some time to understand Light’s mentality and maybe just a little bit he could be right. But I don’t think so, he just jump to conclusion that killing is bad and Light cannot just take all the fun and glory. He’s afraid that Light will be too powerful that he’ll lose his freedom and the freedom of the people since it seemed that he cared for the people. He can’t stand people telling him what to do since he’s a genius, he won’t let it happen. I’ll understand if that’s what he really thought. See how differences create complications, they’re such a drag but without it, life would be boring.

All I can conclude is that Shinigami Ryuk had a good experience in the human world.

I haven’ t really included everything I need to input but I wish this will suffice If you red all the way here, thanks for your interest more power to you….

Our law systems are crumbling, day by day. Criminals go free because they can make bail; killers are let loose because of ethnicity; justice can go to hell if it doesn’t fit the politically correct view of things. Basic rights and wrongs are warped because people want to keep their noses out of other’s business: no one wants responsibility anymore. The basic conformity of laws has been discarded in battles over money and publicity. Slowly, we are becoming uncivilized. (Ex. People flock to Youtube to watch a hanging.)

As a human being living in the heart of this de-evolution, having more awareness due to basic intelligence and his father’s job, Light Yagami reacted the way any of us would have. He acted on his own beliefs and his own desires. Who would really see killing a criminal wrong? We think it every day; in America, it’s Saddam Hussein; during the Holocaust, it was Hitler; in Russia, it was Stalin. People felt that they committed great wrongs against society, and they eventually died because of them (whether they were executed or not— The point is that people wanted them dead).

Everyone has thought something along these lines; divine punishment. We have felt, at least once in our lives, that someone has committed a crime worthy of death. Despite culture, language, or religion, it’s a reaction that has ‘basic human nature’ stamped all over it. As Light pointed out to Ryuk, people hide these instinctive reactions to keep up personal appearances. Everyday, someone wishes another would die, or wonders what the world would be like with out a certain person.

But where does this instinct go from ‘noble’ to ‘psychotic’? Is there even a line to cross? Is it always ‘evil’ to just consider a crime worthy of death? At first, Light was a reasonable person, wanting only peace, and a return of justice for this lawless world, so why accuse him of being a criminal? Of being twisted and evil?

The answer is within society itself.

Comparisons between Light’s (aka Kira’s) ideal have been drawn with the death penalty. I find that comparison to be wrong. The difference between Light’s decision and the government’s is simply a majority. Light acts on a singular scale, eventually drawing in a few followers that follow in his path. We, with our death penalty, have made a decision as a group. A consensus was made, and it was decided that death penalty was widely acceptable. A majority vs. a minority. This is what made Light wrong. If the police force decided to join forces with Light/Kira, his actions would then be considered a majority, and therefore not be wrong.

But, by deciding his own route of justice, Light made himself into a criminal, just like the ones he was killing.

However, in this, we also see L’s childlike—Kira-like—flaw. He wanted to kill Kira. Catch him and put him to death. L decided alone first, then gained support slowly. There was no general consensus, it was L’s wish to catch Kira and kill him, because Kira was wrong. But in this, wasn’t L just condoning Kira’s murders? This is why Near decided that he would lock Kira up if he ever caught him.

Overall, Death Note is an observation on human nature, and the systems of today. There are many people out there who wish nothing more than death to all criminals, and a tighter government effort for justice. There is right, and there is wrong. But the line is severely blurred; it’s up to humankind to decide who’s right. But doesn’t that make Light right in the long-run? ... It all depends on the majority.

((Just severely confused myself, oops. siiighs))

Let me start off by asking what you all mean by Kira’s “corruption”? The one thing that made Kira God was his incorruptibility. His absolute unwavering devotion to the goal! He is perfect! The other thing I think you all fail to understand is that Kira didn’t plan on destroying all the evil. Rather he wanted to cause people to be so afraid they won’t commit evil. The evil nature of humanity can still exist, as long as no one is suppressed by it. The last thing I want to say is that I hate the ending. He just didn’t seem Kira. He was moving way too fast, throwing caution to the wind, using a desperate and risky move. He wouldn’t risk his perfect utopia on anything less than a perfect, flawless victory. Also, he would be prepared for it to lose. He wouldn’t have reveled in victory until he saw them begin to die. Far too risky. It was disappointing not only because he lost, but also because it didn’t feel like a masterfully orchestrated battle of the wits.
Warning…my next paragraph is useless…its just me ranting and raving about my passionate love for Light… I love Light, if he were real I’d be as pathetic as Misa…though he would never take me…which is part of why he is so hot! His absolute unwavering morality! His unique and independent view of right and wrong! I’m sorry…I’m a pathetic little fan girl…but he is the perfect man…too perfect

I apologize but I forgot something!! People say that Light thought he was a God and that he had no right judge right and wrong because he is not a God. Well, what difference does divinity make? If anyone should be judging us it should be a fellow mortal. Just because something is God doesn’t mean it decides right and wrong. Just because a being decides the laws of physics doesn’t mean he deserves to govern the laws of morality! In all actuality, God is a case of might makes right. A selfish being who does what he does for glory. Kira didn’t want glory. He refused the temple they tried to build for him. He killed for the sake of his utopia and for his utopia. If there was a better leader he could trust more then he wouldn’t need to kill the people after him. However no one could do what he did. So he couldn’t let them stop him.

Airiu, I can really see you are a kira supporter :D But I, myself, don’t agree with what you have said. There isn’t any thing that made Kira God, just because he isn’t God. Yes, I know he didn’t mean to kill all the evil ones, but evil things would still have been done, even with Kira as a ruler. (some reasons might be rage, madness, etc). Yes, the evil side of humanity exists,and it will always exist. I think is impossible to stop it from harming people (the same reasons as above). You can hate the ending, but you’ll have to get used to it. In my previous posts I tried to explain that Kira is not only brains and Death Note, it is also PRIDE. It is because of pride that he acted like that in the last episodes, because of pride that he lost (which I think is a good thing).
Oh, and about your second post. I believe no single human should have the right to judge the others, because that human would do what he thinks is worth doing, not necessarily bringing justice to the world. I agree more to the idea of organization, since there are more people that could make an agreement. Kira wanted glory. He was happy when people made websites about him. That thing with the temple, it wouldn’t have done any good for him, but for Demegawa(?). He didn’t only kill for the sake of his utopia, and here I remind you of Lind L Tailor. He killed him only because he said that Kira was evil.
I believe that Light thought he was too important, since he found the Death Note. He refused to take it as a coincidence. Oh well…. once you have power in your hands, you think you’re God…
Hope I didn’t offend you, Airiu, but that’s the way I understand Death Note. And it’s not like I fail to understand anything, it’s just that my opinion is different.

You don’t offend me!! It takes a lot more than disagreeing with me to offend me!
I disagree with the bit on pride. While it is true he has pride and lots of it, he never allowed it to overwhelm his discipline and logic until that moment. Maybe it is just because I hated seeing him lose or because it wasn’t one outwitting the other. It just felt to me that one of them made a mistake that even I wouldn’t make, and I am a moron.
Organizations are inefficient and would in-fight and red tape would cover everything. In addition to that, an organization like that would have an even harder time hiding. Lastly what are the odds of all those people being truly altruistic?
Kira did not want glory, but he was willing to use it. Kira had no desires aside from the realization of his utopia. Everything else was a tool to reach it. I think that he was so delighted about the websites because it showed that people were accepting his way. He was excited about the people making the websites not the actual website itself. Also the websites might have encouraged more and more followers! The more followers there are the more powerful his influence becomes and the more rapidly his dream becomes reality.
As to Lind L. Tailor, Kira had to set a precedent. He had to show that Kira was not going to take crap from anyone. Also he had to intimidate all the future enemies he might have into never boldly striking again. Its all for his utopia. He never gained anything from it aside from self-actualization! Doing the greatest duty he could do for his fellow man.

Oh well… i disagree with you, and I have already written why. If I would write things and quotes again, I would just repeat myself. When Light killed Lind L Tailor, he said something that makes me think about his reason. I still think that pride is one of the key factors, not only in the ending. You can think whatever you want, I told you my opinion. Light is, by far, not the perfect man.

lol, just a difference of interpretation. The Light that I see in my mind’s eye is very different from yours, I guess!

Uwaa, I’m really sorry about double posting again but I just remembered something I needed to add. Some people further up there where talking about L as though he was some kind of saint…which he wasn’t. In fact, he is the despicable villain because he took on cases not for justice but just for fun. Anything he said about justice was a big fat lie.

Well, L isn’t a saint either, and yes, he is a liar, but when did anyone say he took on cases “just for fun”? I mean in quotes. He is a despicable villain for Kira, but in my opinion Kira is the real villain. Yep, different opinions again. The L I see is really different from yours, I guess… even though L and Kira were quite alike, both hating losing. Oh, and I remembered something as well.

SPOILER
L himself accepted only cases that interested him, but Erald Coil and Danuve, the other best detectives in the world (coincidentally L, as well), took on most of the other cases.
END OF SPOILER

I know you are a Kira fan, but maybe you should try and look for other perspectives as well. I know I can’t change your opinion, but that is what I had to say.

Chp 109 Pgs 20 and 21

When Kira killed Lind L. Tailor, you can see the way you want to, but differences in perspective will always be there. I see that Light killed not because Lind described him as evil, but because he challenged Light, I think that Light put at that moment in his mind that he is not, but L is and that he ia justice, and put it that the winner is the one who will decide thus by killing him, Light is justice. Besides Light may see him that him as the head of the rebillion against which must be stopped so that he, the king, keep peace.
Many faces were not shown of L in the manga and the anime, and chapter 9 showed what cases L takes, but not his other personas (Danuve and Coil), L was a liar and took cases that interested him only, also caused the existence of other criminals that is he admitted himself, but still he stopped criminals, instead under the name of justice he choose under the name of “fun”.
We choose to have a ruler because without one, we will be disoriented and thus weak, thus a ruler needed to cause unity and give strength. A ruler puts laws to preserve peace between the ruled. when some people didn’t accept that a human being even though a ruler judge a human being, so a god is a must to give credit to a ruler’s judgements, since noone would dare to defy a being that superior to humans. Today some doesn’t accept the presence of a god, and instead see peace as an enough reason for a ruler’s judgements.
As ShinigamiDana mentioned, Light’s pride had a big influence in his actions, he refused to be defied and he refused that Near, someone who is clearly inferior to L, be able to beat his master plan, which was true Near alone wouldn’t which was clear when he pushed away the idea that a shinigami is with Mikami after the later acted the there wasn’t. And so was his view of Mello, so he didn’t give much care. Though two mistakes he made that is not realizing how similar Mikami’s thinking is to his and that he should be able to contact him, and how a corporation between Near and Mello would be dangerous. Thus after the death of Mello, both of this mistakes showed their fatality, besides Light was always reckless you can see from the start of the series.

I think that when L was talking in chp 109 he was talking about himself as a whole not just L. I think that the only way that it would make sense to me for Danuve and Coil to act otherwise is for L to have some sort of multiple personality disorder or something.
I really like and appreciate your bit about why there is a God. It makes a lot more sense to me why people are so adamantly firm to their belief that God is what defines right and wrong. Thanks for that insight!

I suppose that I have to begrudgingly admit that you are right in the last paragraph. I hadn’t thought about his pride effecting his opinion of Near as an inferior mind in comparison to his own and L’s. That actually makes sense and explains his mistake. I don’t agree that Light was always reckless. He was very cautious and meticulous. He sometimes took risks but there was no other way to ever have a chance at furthering his goals.

Once again, thanks a lot Modi! You gave me some things to really think about. Just curious, your earlier posts seem kinda ambiguous, Do you condone the actions of Kira or do you condemn them?

To act as three diferent persons, is not something hard for someone with high intellectual abilities like L. But if we considered that L truly was talking about the three personas, then we should understand that his reason is better than taking justice as one, why? you may ask. Some people assumed that L was an atheist, though I see that there is not enough evidence to prove that, but I will build my reason according to it. Justice is not defined actually there is always something pollutes it’s concept and that is proved by the many delimmas that a human may face, and for someone who is an atheist, this fact shows up even worse, sinc he can’t say it’s god’s teachings, or that your losses will be apreciated by god and he will reward you for your sacrifices. So when a case comes to him and he wanted justice, he will mostly not kow what to do, since some cases the just side is not clear, is it justice to put this criminal to jail, though his reason follows what is jutice, maybe the current laws are just flawed. Taking interest and fun as a reason will not make of such things, he will only think this person broke the law in an interesting way, so let’s send him to where he belongs and at the same time test my intellectual abilities.

Light’s recklessnes is proved when he executed his plan to get his follower’s name(Ray Penbar), he admitted that himself that the plan was flawed.

I condemn Light’s doings, but condone his reason.

Interesting line of thought! I would have never considered that possibility. You think even further out of the box than I do. However, I was only saying what I was to draw attention to the fact that he doesn’t follow the general society’s opinion of justice.

On the other hand, to explore this line of thought more thoroughly, do you think that Kira’s goal was wrong? Since you state that justice is a flawed and convoluted thing to base your reasoning on, and Kira definitely desired justice, does that mean that by your logic Kira was a worse person than L because he(Kira) was inspired by justice as opposed to personal interest?

Hmm, okay, let me join the debate… again. I have something to mention. I saw a picture with Light and L, where Light is labeled as God and L is labeled as atheist. It is just beautiful.

As I already stated in my previous post, I entirely agree with Light’s ideology and with his self as a whole. I read what Airiu had said about Light: that she loves him and that if he existed, she would be as pathetic as Misa. I must say I understand your reasoning because in my opinion Light is the greatest man/character ever. However, I would never let myself be pathetic in front of him. ‘In front of him’ has a dualistic meaning: in the case that he was real (which, sadly, is most probably false) and in front of the image of him in my own mind. Because in the current situation this is what really matters—for an individual, there is nothing else except for his/her mind and perceived images.

According to my personal theory, there is no such thing as morals or justice because everything depends on definitions and point of view/perspective. Therefore, there is no sense in trying to share morals and good deeds.

For me, Light is extraordinarily great because his reasoning was beyond humanity, beyond its daily values (when I say this, I think of Stage 6 according to Kohlberg =) ). He saw the world as a whole, understood its ‘rotting’ nature, and forced the people to improve it at least to an extent that could be controlled. His first goal was to stop people from committing crimes due to fear. His next goal was to make people better because of their belief and faith. And who knows, maybe he succeeded or at least started succeeding? (According to the last chapter of the manga.)

I would like to make it clear that I do not agree with the end of Death Note; in my mind, Light is not the maniac they made him. He is the man he was until L’s death because this is his true self and this is the true story.

Now, you might say that Light himself was not what he tried to make the others. I would agree immediately. This is only natural—he cannot be like everyone else because he needs to look after the order of that society in order to make it function and develop; he had to be unique—he had to continue existing as Light and Kira simultaneously. Light’s reasoning and the following deeds were absolute which means they were not bound by humanity’s worn-out norms. These actions are what humanity needs; however, people are not able to realize this, as it seems too cruel to be true. This is why Light’s/Kira’s role should be carried out in secrecy, as he aimed, so that he would not be troubled. If people obey him and realize what he is doing unconsciously (or in their souls—call it as you wish), then Kira’s doings would succeed. Exactly because Yagami Light is the one carrying them out.

The problem is that this cannot be tried out in reality as far as we know, which is why we can just stay here and hypothesize further.

eXoticPirate

Modi had a point which I would say explained why Light wasn’t himslef in the Near/Mellow part of Death Note. He said that since he thought he was facing an inferior opponent (and he was) he couldn’t lose. He already beat L and these punks were nothing compared to L. Also, I don’t know about you, but the only thing worse than losing is losing to someone who is worse than you at the game and to top it off they sometimes think they were better all along. I dunno, I still say that I dislike it and the second to last chapter was kinda messed up…but then again I’m a kira follower!

I will try answering Airiu before replying to what eXoticPirate said.
Kira’s goal was not wrong, but his actions are quite rash and can be criticized easily. Let us consider that he did enough invastigation about the criminal he sentenced to death and their crimes were proved against them, then how much credit did he give to intentional and unintentional crimes. Do we consider a car accident that caused the death of a certain member deserve the same judgement as a serial killer? To me the answer is no, they both deserve to be punished, but the first I say a certain period of time in jail and other measures to make sure this rash behaviour will not be repeated, while the other death is a sufficient one and as painless as possible for the sake of mercy. Light didn’t do that, gave no place to what is part of human nature that is mercy and no place to the rational idea(I believe) that stealing is not like killing. Kira build a certain kind of justice, one that he thought fit, without care of a part of human nature, that is accidental mistakes, and then he forced justice to everyone, and his justice I don’t believe was universal, the world is of many culture, what may be acceptable to some and unacceptable to others. People believes that god is omnipotent and omniscient, because that’s how it’s supposed to be or at least they want him to be like that. Kira is not a god, he is a human limited to a human’s limitation and chose to be what he isn’t.
eXoticPirate, Kira starts to plant fear in people’s heart and then distribute his teachings, right? Or let allow me to say start a religion. You said these actions are “what humanity needs”, but when you read in a holy book about god punishing the sinners, you say that god is unjust and cruel, especially when some hear the story of Noah and the Flood. Why don’t you say about that “what humanity needs”. Kira as you said it “forced the people to improve themselves”, at least the god many people believe in, gave them the choice, gave the teaching to improve humanity , giving what’s right and wrong , letting those who will choose the wrong will be punished. Some may ask why isn’t the punishment happening in an instant, the answer is in the in the belief itself, if god is omniscient and omnipotent, shouldn’t e know when is the right timing for that? Kira may have punished many criminals, but others are yet to be discovered and if not what happens the escape the punishment, why don’t anyone take this part of the story? Light’s mistake is that he thought what he isn’t.
P.S: Don’t take this personally, even though I used the term “you”, I was taking in general, or at least about certain people I know and my to whom I may have offended. Point out my mistakes in the argument .

“my apologies to whom I offended”
Just correcting my mistake.

Light Yagami, given a taste of power that corrupted him so much it lead him to his death. I believe in his ideology very much. But shun some of his choices and thoughts. He was smart, but not smart enough apparently. L would not have been a target in my view. Though I have only seen up to 17 I know Light kills his father. Why, I haven’t an idea. Light did things well at first but became careless. I will think more on this. Maybe I can reason as to why such power corrupts normal humans such as Light.

I have a difficulty…you see I shouldn’t use the word justice…cuz I despise the whole concept. Justice says that people who do wrong should be punished and that is stupid. They should be punished if and only if that punishment will serve to better themselves or society. Kira decided to punish them for the sake of society, and even with limited success he was still greatly reducing crime and war. I’m saying that even if innocents are sacrificed, in the face of Light’s extreme dream, it was a necessity. While I dislike the method, it is the only one that will work quickly in this day and age…if he had more power than just the Death Note he probably could have done things better, but him trying to save the world with a death note is like trying to to dig a tunnel with a spoon…

Modi, I will answer your question. There is a difference between punishment in religion and punishment by Light. Your example is one that makes me think of ‘God’s testing the strength of his believers’ faith,’ which I have always seen as stupid. I will never accept the idea of making one suffer for the sole purpose of proving his/her devotion. Also, in religion (Christianity specifically) innocent people are often sacrificed. An example are all the families that are killed in the Old Testament in order for God to establish his power and show it to everyone. This scene was presented in an excellent way in The Prince of Egypt, an animated movie, and the image has been stuck in my mind as terrifying for all those ten years that passed since I watched the movie back in my childhood. I despise these methods of establishing God’s power: killing massive numbers of people in order to show his own power (it seems almost like showing off). A small number of sacrifices are always necessary, which is sad; however, there is a big difference between accidental/sadly necessary casulties and tremendous amounts of assassinated people as a proof for God’s power.

In contrast, Light’s punishment has nothing to do with this goal. His punishment is for the sake of society and others and making their lives better. Those who receive punishment deserve it because they have done something terrible to the other members of the society. Social peace is an extremely complicated concept; therefore, such obvious obstacles as criminals should be assassinated as soon as possible, which is what Light was doing. Airiu, I agree with you that his using the Death Note could not be enough, but it was the start of the changes in society. His doings were meaningful because changes for the better were becoming obvious and were going to continue to occur.

eXoticPirate

Then how can you know that what God did was not to improve humanity? On what reaon did you decide that God’s actions were just showing off? Didn’t Light also kill huge numbers of people? If you are sad because of the families, didn’t you consider that a thief’s family whom that thief was the only source of income was killed by Light and thus they lose the only source of living? Do you think that criminals don’t have families? And didn’t Light kill criminals already in jail to prove his powers and existence?
Don’t take things as they were shown to you, when it comes to God there are many things that we do not know, that’s why people say it’s a matter of faith.

a question of faith. interesting thinking. i can see meaning in both of your oppinions. God is a very questionable topic. she/he has the power to change everything but doesn’t. this rises the thought “is there really a God at all?” she/he has the power to snap her/his fingers and fix things but chooses not to. yet Light, with only a taste of this power alters the entire world. does that mean humans are gods? we do more change than God anymore. Light did even more. but is it a question about who does what?

Then another questions to reply for that, how did you know that God doesn’t do anythings? And what to what happened with the freedom people talk about that they are supposed to have the freedom in taking their actions? Isn’t Light forcing people to follow his justice, why do you accept that now?

good observation Modi. no one can really say God does nothing for us i guess. but we may have freedom of action but we are punished for most everything in the after life. it is a sin to have sex before mariage. it is sinful to believe in another god. it is even a sin to listen to certain types of music and to practice scorcery and alchemy. compared to God, Light is much more forgiving. he punishes for true injustice, not silly things like sex and beliefs. i think Light would be a great god.

I would like to answer Modi’s questions. I will answer all of them.

You asked, “Then how can you know that what God did was not to improve humanity?” I know it because people in poor countries continue dying as they did a long time ago—in slavery, in a pathetic, quick, meaningless, and ugly way. They die because someone thought they are nobody. This cannot be God’s work. Light killed people BECAUSE there was a reason: their crime(s).

You asked, “On what reaon did you decide that God’s actions were just showing off?” ‘God’ says this himself (in the Bible, God is considered a man, and this is why I am saying ‘he;’ otherwise, I would use s/he): that people should watch how he will kill those who do not believe in him, which is showing off his power. If he was the true, all-loving God, he would not kill innocent people and children.

You asked, “Didn’t Light also kill huge numbers of people?” This has nothing to do with what I am saying, and I already explained the reasons in all my posts.

About the whole thing with the thief’s family and the speculation that it will lose its source of income: yeah right! It is not so difficult for people (a woman or ever grown up children) to find jobs, so if they are left without ANY money (I doubt that), they would be able to gain something or even steal a small amount. Yes, a family would be sad if one of its members dies (the criminal), but on the long run, this would be a better way because it will be saved from a large portion of psychological damage.

You aksed, “And didn’t Light kill criminals already in jail to prove his powers and existence?” You are missing an extremely important point here: if a criminal is in prison, this does not mean that the world is saved from him/her forever. The years for staying in prison may run out, the criminal may escape, or a politician may decide to let him/her go; afterwards, the criminal will cause problems from other people out of the prison again. Even if the criminal does not leave prison for the rest of his/her life, s/he may cause severe damage to another criminal who is less guilty, another person, etc. This is why Light had every right to kill prisoners. Think of some terrible crimes; if you need examples, ask for them, I will help you.

You said, “Don’t take things as they were shown to you.” Haha! I’m sorry, but it is just funny to hear this, as I am a person who hardly trusts anything she hears/sees/experiences.

You said, “that’s why people say it’s a matter of faith,” and I would add “and it depends on the way things are presented, on the way people are fooled.” I do not know about your personal beliefs, but I think religion (not necessarily God, but many religions) is a manipulatory system. A great example is the Christian Church; I do not think this is the place for me to present my pieces of evidence, although I have many, many of them. Anyway, you seem a clever enough person to be able to think of some yourself. God is supposed to take care of humanity. If s/he cannot carry out this task, then s/he should give it up. Humanity should be either helped by an absolute being or left to live in chaos and maybe find its own way out.

You asked, “how did you know that God doesn’t do anythings?” I partially just answered that question. I would also like to add that maybe God is an absolute being but is not actually what we consider him/her, and maybe s/he has no reason and desire to save humanity. If this is the case, then I would understand his/her actions.

You asked, “And what to what happened with the freedom people talk about that they are supposed to have the freedom in taking their actions?” Well, this is just funny! People never had freedom, they were always slaves to some rules and norms—it does not depend on what level they are, there are always some. Some of them are better, others are worse. ‘Clever’ people manage to shape things in such a way that they would have to follow only useful rules leading to considerably positive consequences.

You asked, “Isn’t Light forcing people to follow his justice, why do you accept that now?” In continuation to my previous thought, yes, Light made people follow his justice because it is necessary. As I stated in my previous post, it is what humanity needed, it is what needs to happen to people. I concluded this from the fact that humanity needs some new path of actions, as it has not managed to live with itself after following the paths it had built for itself for it in the past.

Otoharada Hideki, I agree that some of God’s punishments are for silly and formal things, while Light did not take into consideration such unimportant aspects. This is another thing I pay attention to: that the essence is what should be observed.

eXoticPirate

if you belive in hevan the he could be killing the innocent people and kids to save them from the many sins of the world, but it would still be a lot better to fix those wrong doings like he said he would. But I guess he’s just lasey. Has anyone notice that if a person committed a murder they are branded as a criminal, but in a war they are branded as a hero, and they not only kill the armed but disarmed too. I am a light suportter and I think he should kill anyone who kills, so I think that Light should kill anyone who partiapates in a war. I know i spelt that wrong. You might think that its the some if Light kills, but he will be saving innocent lives sence all the bomb exploisions will kill or gravily inger the innocent and kids.

Well in my opinion Light’s ‘ORIGINAL’ idea was almost flawless- and had a very steady argument. but after he started wiping out innocent people things took a turn for the worse and at the end it results to barking and yelling and wagging his butt on L’s grave and let’s not forget that ‘laugh’ on both occasions (the last episode and the cut scene with L’s funeral)

If had stayed with his orginal idea and didn’t get to the point where ‘I am the God of a new world no one can stop me’ and all that it would have been better. His ego got the better of him-and he got a tad bit annoying.

However he killed for simple crimes for even people who regretted. No mercy if you would like to say that.

I also do not think it was rational for him to insist on others to die for the crimes they committed, being totally oblivious to what he was actually doing-to others and to himself.

But my views are a little off centered about ‘L’s funeral’ because I support L more than Raito, or Light or Kira or whatever you would like to call him.

i enjoy speaking with such intelegent people. heaven and hell, isnt that the real choice of a god. who do you believe Light would have sent to one or the other if he knew thier cause?

Hmm, if we are talking about a true god and his/her absolute powers actually exist between different realities, then hell would not exist at all. That God (or Light or Kira for the sake of our topic) would have changed all the people and their actions. If this was the case, it would be easy for him because he would not have to deal with crimes, etc. and also people would live better lives. Their problems would be less severe, and they would be relatively happier; at least no one would commit crimes, and people would be concentrated on other things. Therefore, the realm we call heaven or some variation of it would welcome people after their death. Maybe other changes of the place where people exist would also occur. It is interesting to think that there could be numerous other realities that follow ‘this’ life and many other events may take place, so that God (or Light or Kira) could be busy with more complex and interesting things.

This is my idea; I know it is a little complicated, so I explained only its surface.

eXoticPirate

wahahahahahhahahahhaha…............

interesting thinking exoticpirate. God (Light) would probably eliminate the possibility of crime and make his work easier. but wouldn’t this also take the ability of free will? humans commit crimes because they can if they so please. so in order to completely deminish crime it would have to be erased entirely from human ability. only a true god could do such things. but then free will would be gone. would Light take things that far? the Light i know wouldn’t. but….

That kind of thing would never work, in my personal opinion. Like in my school. Kids my age are getting suspended for fighting, dress code, etc…, and it even goes so far as to get them expelled. But they still do it! Apply that to this situation. Let’s say one person robs a bank. They get killed off by “Light”. Next week, same thing happens, different person. Bang, that guy’s dead too. Eventually, it’ll end up only being “Light”, standing in a barren wasteland surrounded by corpses. Eh, but who’s gonna listen to me anyway? I’m just a kid. _

Ian-kun, it would only go to that if everyone in the world chose to do such. i would never steal from a bank so here is one person Light won’t kill. how about you Ian??? would you rob a bank? another thing to think, if someone kills another for say murdering thier husband or wife and Light knew this was the cause of the murder, would he kill that person or commend them???

Yep, but we all will eventually die…
And, yes, not all of us will rob banks, but there are people with mental illnesses that can kill… and, those kind of people can’t just be exterminated. They are everywhere (i’m not paranoid) Or, on the other side, supposing that some uf us are policemen or detectives trying to catch Kira, Bang again! We fall… Or, with the men that commit passional crimes(or anything else that has anything to do with murder), what if Kira wants (again) people to see that he really exists? Well, in my opinion, he kills them (in some countries, they would have be executed anyway).
But, as Otoharada Hideki says, it is impossible for a HUMAN , as Light is, to exterminate the human kind. And that is because he can’t live forever.

And I personally don’t believe Kira meant to send innocent people to heaven when he killed them. They were obstacles, and therefore he eliminated them.

Well, maybe killing murderers was Light’s idea of “justice”, but again, I think this anime shows us how different opinions can be. Justice is a concept, and people have different opinions about it.

“Your example is one that makes me think of ‘God’s testing the strength of his believers’ faith,’ which I have always seen as stupid. I will never accept the idea of making one suffer for the sole purpose of proving his/her devotion”
In school and universities, tests are made so that their studen’t learning development be measured, also in life, to truly measure your abilities is to face a real life situation that requires you to use them, if this method(which includes suffering) was taken by us humans for measurment, then why shouldn’t God? You may say that he should know without a test, my answer would be is that it will be a proof for the person and the people.
“Also, in religion (Christianity specifically) innocent people are often sacrificed. An example are all the families that are killed in the Old Testament in order for God to establish his power and show it to everyone.”
Do you have any idea of the concept of “killing few to save many”, besides I said it’s a matter of faith before, so people would believe that God sent them to heaven and thus saving them from suffering in this world, why God didn’t take everyone then? Simply so that they tell others and transfer their knowledge to others, thus planting fear and respect. You think the numbers are great and hardly can be called few, but a million other ten million or a hdrd million is not much of a number, even though a million is a great number in itself.
“God is a very questionable topic. she/he has the power to change everything but doesn’t. this rises the thought “is there really a God at all?” she/he has the power to snap her/his fingers and fix things but chooses not to.”
Humans have been given a special attribute, the ability to choose between right and wrong, that is unlike other creatures which do not have this ability which is “the will”, for an example a rabbit won’t willingly decide to starve itself(even though food is in front of it) as move of objection against tigers for eating it’s family. God distributed his teaching it’s the choice of people to follow them or not, follow them and you will be given prosperity, disobey and